I'm just going to try and emphasize a few points here:* As mentioned by many folks, it is important to own your career and hence plan you promotion, discuss it with your manager, and most importantly follow up on it. By then I had already already set up several clients as in independent consultant, so I declined to stay. In this article, we have explained the Job levels at Microsoft which starts at SDE and goes up to Technical Fellow. 4. If I was 65/66 material, why did they wait until I gave notice to offer me the promotion? Microsoft hiring Senior Director for Land Development EMEA in Dublin Ask yourself: what fraction of your job do you actually enjoy? ask around for a good mentor or go to our internal mentor site to be matched with a mentor http://mentor/Mentor/user/mymentoring.asp. I was let go from Microsoft recently. then do you know what more you need to do? for people, who might claim that they do all this and still cant progress.. dude, either you are in wrong group or you have not introspected / taken feedback well or you are missing the whole thing by a mile. But if your manager is undervaluing your work, and *that* is the factor that is making you unhappy, you can fix that. Same applies if you started your career in Test. In my group that's the really tough one. No matter how good you are, you will peak at some point and Microsoft will get rid of you. I used to work in the OneCare team. Know what is going to make your product succeed, know what is going to make your team succeed, know what part of that you can achieve. Leaked Salary Spreadsheet Reveals Microsoft Employee Earnings for a See next bullet. There are so many reasons why things didn't happen in a given review cycle. You might be too smart or have ideas that come from somewhere outside of Redmond which makes you very dangerous and not Microsoft material. This helps us sort answers on the page. Reading all this makes me so happy I don't work at MS anymore. I'm a level 66 dev (architect). Those teams I used to despise as a L60, and only tolerate as a 63? The job level for Technical Fellow starts at 80 and goes beyond. (this is never a bad idea anyway) Then, if you are doing as good a job as he, he will want you as a peer in level, if not, then he can help you grow. kc. more often than not it is up to the employee to use the resources, show maturity and commonsense and move up62 -> 63 is difficult and there is a reason behind it. For the folks on the path to L63, I want you to first understand your boss's opinion of you, your opinion of yourself, what it takes to succeed in your team, and then ways you can step up and be on the right path. "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. The point here is that I have more than once seen folks that were very talented and super stars get bumped for someone less talented but more vocal. Ellie Reinker - Senior Director - EcoTech Partners LLC | LinkedIn During that time I had two good to great managers. Its difficult to transfer to a new position because at a high level, what group is going to take you on to a new position you have no experience in. So far, we all appear to have jobs, but man, what a shocker, I thought ours was one of the more stable teams.Not sure what happens to our Director, he seemed a bit shocked himself when he delivered the news today. Cathriona Hallahan - Independent Non-Executive Member - LinkedIn To anonymous who has spent 3.5 years in role at MS. You're already blacklisted. And I'm going to tell you right now, I'm 99.9% sure what needs to change is you. On the subject of switching teams: It's completely possible to move up by being really good exactly where you are, in most cases. Might as well fire those guys. I would get vague directives like you need to be the thought leader or you need to improve your system knowledge. Be the Rosh Gadol Microsoftie. According to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google can earn $172,818 as their average base pay, along with average cash bonuses of $30,921, stock bonuses of $104,769, and some other cash incentives for a total of $201,000. The only thing you learn is your bucket, and roughly where in the bucket you fit based on your numbers. That manager was (in my and many others' opinions) an incompetent, non-technical "manager" who was incapable of recognizing people's talent and contributions. First, they are moving *to* something that they think fits them better -- and bringing an enthusiasm for the new position to go with the better fit. It's because you were playing catch-up to Apple, and playing Machiavellian games with the media companies instead of working on the issues that your customers were complaining about.When will MS learn this lesson? If you do not market yourself well, even if you are a superstar here at MSFT, your achievements might just go unrecognized (or they might be selectively recognized). You first have to be truthful with what direction you're going in and where you actually are trying to head. Google Senior Software Engineer Salary: No Limit for a Few They are 100% star material. A broad perspective matters.3) This is all about stack rank. I made sure I was the guy you wanted to call when the server crashed in the lab with a crazy callstack and no repro.Second, OWN the features. Lots of terrible mid level managers at MS. To the person from MCS who said it was easy to get to 64 in MCS - MCSinTheFieldI agree with you there, you can get to a L64 in MCS but try to ever transfer to another org as a L64. Biggest key for me was knowing when to leave a bad management situation and team. The larger the team I work on the more I am bombarded with meetings and brown bags so someone can attempt to become the expert on design patterns, code coverage, or feature X. What are other groups doing? If so, then you're going to have a hard time finding senior IC spots anywhere. It's an excellent product. Revise if needed. if they'd only stop doing X and start doing Y on a sustained basis, I could see it Microsoft: Citi Cuts Ests, Target On PC Slowdown. I sat there at L64 for 5+ years. ceo/vp/director/manager/lead etc. my recommendation is you take the offer if you've gone this far. But the clarity I have through the rear view mirror is staggering -- I was defining myself by what a bunch of poorly skilled managers thought, in a company that hadn't moved it's stock price in seven years. Nobody will be shy of firing you if you make a big mess. Mini himself is quite high level and knowledgable. It took him at least two months to integrate. Mini, as good as your writeup is, there is too much emphasis on this level promo business in MS, and I have seen my fair share of people that have been burnt by it. One of the key lessons is to know who is the gate keeper for your career. and I know to a certain degree that's all of us - but, if you're dealing with 2-3 a year or every other year then you need to get out. Can any reader in Corp Sales Excellence(SMS&P) privide guidance on how to grow from 63 to 64 in that group. He identified the common denominators in becoming an expert in practically any field. What I've learned is be very, very specific on your commits and accountabilites. It going to be more about survival in the current business climate. Don't do this point blank and for no apparent reason, but your manager has to be aware that at all times you're working towards your next promo, be aware of your results, be aware of the things you need to do to get there, and make YOU and HIS MANAGER aware of those things. I thought what I did was valuable but in the end, it wasn't.The Microsoft up or out policy is the prime directive. I've lucked out a bit by working on a key project for our group and division, although a lot of that was due to my own contributions. Flip on the klaxons! First let's set the expectations right for this quarter and possibly the next: The budgets for promos are shrunk almost everywhere. :). I've been 3.5 years at 62 and re-orged every year in mobile.Any ideas on how to carry greats results of one role into another through a re-org. Exceptional Director, hardworking, reliable, efficient, a team player, flexible to work 24 hours shift rota, prioritise my workload at all time, managing customers and team, managing safely, ability to carry out Risk Assessments and how to manage such Risks to minimal, excellent report written skills, excellent communicate skills both verbal and written forms including presentation using . Worked my ass off and finally get recognized as Snr contributor. Amazon I've been told HR looks for employees that have been at their level too long. They will have thought this out. You will not know the difference.Steve Steve Steve given the state of the company, are you sure you don't have anything else more urgent to do? If you want to advance and you are not a "favorite underling", your first and most important job is this: figure out how to become a "favorite underling". Senior directors are tenured members of an organization who are considered part of the leadership or executive team, in which they represent their department or division. )Those are only 3 of many 'soft skills' that will hold most people, even brilliant people, back.Has every level X mastered these skills? So a sub role at L61 = corp L63 and vice versa.So from a sub perspective:L58 and below are relatively junior roles where you have zero influence outside of meeting your commitmentsL59 -> L60 is a tougher jump. They make decisions that affect both their department and the company, making their role crucial in the pursuit of the company's goals. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Think that's known as a "RIF" not a "layoff" butwhat do I know? But the opportunities I see doing X seem to be compelling from a financial and growth standpoint. Never "threaten" to leave or waive external offers in my face unless you're fully prepared to be escorted out of the building that minute. I'm not talking about "managing up" (though that helps a little if done properly) but it's all about understanding your manager and skip manager's priorities and proactively succeeding in those areas. Results-focused: they are focused on getting great results and don't entwine their ego to particular solutions. Because, except on the rare occasion, Microsoft and your team isn't going to change.But, Mini, isn't your 'raison d'etre' just the opposite? Getting constant feedback throughout is valuable as you can re-align and re-adjust in an agile way so that you are not shocked at review time that you have completely missed that promotion. Mini could you please confirm or deny this. It appears on 6.3% of resumes. Your boss is the way to your promotion no matter where, what and when. Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company?Not giving quite as snide a response as the previous posterAsk your management. 3. Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company?Maybe because you are so overleveled (maybe not you personally, but MSN as whole), your bosses doesn't want rest of the company to make ruckus about that injustice (I have seen people moving from SDE II in Windows to MSN and getting promotion-on-transfer to SENIOR SDE, and they were not even hard-core devs). Fourth, repeat ad infinitum. >Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length.I hope HR gets cut. The estimated base pay is $243,438 per year. But that doesn't really help you compete when you don't know what everyone else is doing, particularily if you think you're doing well.Further, it's hard to get specific advice on how to get promoted, due to said black wall. When I finally figured out how to play well with others and was able to show some major cross-group gains in addition to my own leet prod dev skills, that's when I became a 63.63 to 64 was a bit of a slog -- I'd say more like a full-frontal assault on lazy management, actually :). This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. They literally lived in GM's office for half a year to get the promo from L64 to L65.3. It sounds fishyMy manager was also saying me something along the same lines. And to your boss. Chong Eu Ong - Senior Information Technology Manager - LinkedIn I know we have had some huge improvements in the last few years in that regard, but we are really still way far behind, and I as a male employee, I know that very well, and I have seen many instances of female super stars de-emphasized in favor of a less-achieving, less-talented male team member. What got you here ain't gonna get you there. When she finally left the company four years ago things improved greatly. And you know something? It doesnt matter if the system is fair or not. Most gravitate to safe work that's in their comfort zone or work they enjoy. It's a good time to flip back through that. You're cursed for life.2. Learn everything I can about the technology (I'm a PM and don't have a CS background so I work extra hard at this and ask lots of questions.)2. and is willing to take a chance on someone whose interview indicates they are ready for next level. L8=Partner/GM. So dont try to be joker just to get attention.Now of course, this is all just the theory. At Microsoft, the levels start at 59 and go beyond 80. The first was the barter (a position exists that I qualify for - give it to me now and I will commit to staying with the team another year. MS is a carrot and stick culture with some heavy emphasis on stick. I think that the whole culture of the stack rank + fighting for scraps for their directs + a lack of visibility and input on what will justify a promotion is what scares of managers from engaging with their employees regarding career growth.Note, that I am not saying that I want a guarantee one way or the other. Executive Officers - Stories But more likely youre displaying the hallmark of a weak performer described in the article of the same name (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL). Staff Software Engineer, Google Cloud Platforms, Senior Staff Software Engineer, Infrastructure, Principal Engineer, Developer Platform Systems, Senior Software Engineer, Mobile (Android), AR. All of my experience is in the product development groups at MS (dev/test/pm) so my observations may not apply elsewhere. Levels 57 and 58 are reserved for non-permanent employees and Levels 59 and 60 are reserved for New Graduates. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. When your manager finally ask you to do X, you'll be nodding your head and saying, "yeah, totally, and here's my progress on X." Why? The average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, which is 65% lower than the average Microsoft salary of $500,742 per year for this job. Their self criticism spurs them to improve. Furthermore, after reaching a plateua in order to get to the next level of development there is usually a dip in the current performance as the learner starts temporarily letting go of some of the skills they have mastered in order to experiment and try new things. Senior level executive excelling at increasing operational efficiencies, improving . Thanks. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. For me, it will take some serious job switching to get there. That is one aspect where they are forced to build fake relationships with directors and GMs to get promoted and unfortunately those who maintain good relatiship with them get promoted. Granted, you have to live in the greater NYC area, but it's a great place to be. My manager and I had a plan to influenc that person and it worked. They want you to succeed, they want the team to succeed. My best guess is that you think it should be await. Most organizations will do promo/slate through a consensus/stack rank process. Don't give up.I'd appreciate it if you'd do a similar post on the 65 to 65 transition. Related Searches:All Senior Director Salaries|All Microsoft Salaries. I take some of the blame for not managing my career more directly, but no one should be offered a promotion when they leave--if they are valuable, let them know before hand! Expertise in the following areas: Product Marketing Consistently created groundbreaking, customer-focused value . Here is my question, I don't trust that my manager will fight for me to get me to 63 for the following reasons:- The area I own is not big enough for a 63 but at the same time there is not other areas he can give to me given where we are as a team without taking away from my peers, something he would not want to do unless there is a big problem with a peer not delivering which is not the case.- Innovation - this leaves me with trying to come up with other areas that the team can focus on in addition to current goals to leap frog us and which I can own; so far even though some of my ideas are really good (according to the mgr) the timing is off (ie the team has not reached that level yet where my ideas would be practical to implement given the big ROI)In short I can't trust that this mgr will get me to 63 in a time frame that I would like to see it happen (provided that I nail the qualities you highlight for a 63) which leaves me with the following choices:-Sticking around and continue working on displaying 63 qualities until the above points change, and who knows how long that will take- leave for another team internally (which means a bit of time to establish myself again etc) but at the same it would give me more clear timeline of when I can say I am 100% delivering as a 63.-get external offers (eg from Google), bring it up with the mgr and thereby force a change (more responsibility) since leaving would hurt the team in at least the short term. For technical and management track, the job level start from 57 and continues till 80. Here's some advice from a recent L64'er (L63 last year). Don't let HR lie to you, this is a stack rank exercise. It's also a well-known fact that there is a disparity in levels between Office and now Sinofsky's Windows and the rest of the company, especially below 65 level.Can anyone elaborate on that? At L63 in particular you break out of the pack with expertise in the "how" you accomplish things. This is the multiplier effect, or scope of influence that is often mentioned. i've been hearing this.. you know when you are about to cut a small feature and do balancing in your sprint/milestone essentially this is happening at VP level. New Senior Director Human Resources jobs added daily. Senior Account Executive | Director | Sales & Marketing. Amy Hood. Your level is essentially recognition of your circle of influence or radius of your contribution. "2) Peel the onion. Here's how to find it. SoI'll repeat it again. "Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. Good luck with that. At L63 you should be directing v-teams, serving as a lead or possibly even having direct reports. Could somebody please confirm or deny this. I spend a long time a 61 about 4.5 years mostly because I changed groups alot. mini,time to start a new blog: maybe around current economy and msft. What Microsoft employees earn: breaking down salaries for the company's There were times when I was promoted more slowly than I probably could have been, but I am very happy with where I am now, and I am still growing. Seriously - if you wave a competitor's offer in my face what have you told me? No one else was as good. My promotion to 63 came not when I helped my group out of one of their many nightmares but when I helped an uncle. i asked him if he knew the absolute most important thing for him to do to get promoted. Jon Tucker - Principal Director - Data & AI - Kainos | LinkedIn 5. the answer is simple - take on more. The true professional with loads of potential is left to Sulk. That is the guy to beat. Will a team that needs exactly the skills and interests that you have pass on you because of some HR guideline? Once you identify those things scream about it by sending email with problem and solution and offer leadership to eliminate that imperfection. This is usually how teams start to rot from the inside. It sounds trite, but it's true. Aren't those the things you are best at? I came in at 58 (9) and having been through a) I wish I had gone through b). If you have a good manager he/she will ensure the relevant peers know all about it. If you are considering leaving your team (or Microsoft) but think you could be persuaded to stay, be careful about how you present this to your manager. Greg Armand - Sales Director Canadian OEM and Strategic - LinkedIn Founded in 1969 by Dr. Bish Agrawal, ABC Consultants is the pioneer of organized recruitment services in India. You can work hard and grind it out. Isabelle La Fornara - Koutny - Senior Director - LinkedIn Let's apply that stick to cronyism and punishment based management practicies. My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. Just pick one Job id, prepare for it and then go for internal. I'm now off the meds, not seeing the psychiatrist, and living happily.Working at MS was both the best time in my life and the worst time. Excuses and griping and bemoaning aren't the stuff that L63 contributors are made of. If youre not doing a great job at your current level youre not even going to be considered for the next level. Ill answer first question later in this comment. I'm not even thinking about level 63 at this point. I influenced the features, I lended my expertise on them, and I learned about the customer - all this way before the spec'ing phase. Youre hanging onto the bar swing back and forth feeling pretty secure. because I have never seen the above formula fail with me in many years or people I know (a sample set of hundreds of person-years), I would agree, right now, level is deflated, 64, and 65 are real barriers, and salary level expand as well. An accomplished and proven Director / Tech & Business Principal / Programme Manager / Business Partner / Service Delivery Manager with a wide-ranging skillset, experienced in leading teams to success. What advice do you have to pass on? This is so that they can convert those positions to other discipline.i've seen this happening to at least 2 teams so far. Microsoft Corp. engages in the development and support of software, services, devices, and solutions. In short there are lot many ways to influence others and infect the best ones are not being a manager :). If you can learn to do this you become incredibly valuable.5. Continuously revisit those and discuss with your manager. Senior Director Levels at Microsoft 63 (Senior Manager) 64 Principal EM (Principal Director of Engineering) 66 Senior Director (67) GM, Partner (SDE Group Manager) 69 VP (70) Corporate VP (80) Executive VP (81) View 7 More Levels United States No region found, search all locations Greater Seattle Area San Francisco Bay Area View All Data Second, the perspective of a different team helps you generalize about best practices and what works and doesn't work. Any tips will be greatly helpful. I'm a level 64 lead in Windows and this post is spot on. I made it to L63 in a year (I was probably under leveled when I arrived). agree with positive suggestions here. In the case of the latter, make sure you have the goods, because your manager now must show his/her hand on whether s/he values you. "We have a stable and relatively easy job, and as long as we achieve, we will not get fired." So either keep slapping yourself or choose to wake up. You should be able to show the path to a goal, especially to collections of people who do not report to you. Does anyone know what the typical salary increase, measured in percentage, is for going from 62 to 63? Microsoft's '08 Mistakes: The Software Giant's Three Errors http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/121908-microsofts-08-mistakes-the-software.html?hpg1=bnJust three? Pop quiz: who is it? Are you ok with what you hear? All you have to do is look at the level distribution, there is a large dropoff in positions at 65. Some considerations, based on my own career:- The best way to get to level 63 is moving around, and getting promotions as you move. You will never get your promotion on a silver platter. Then they start pinging the manager on why and putting pressure on them to do something, move them up or out. Unless you plan to stay in the same org the rest of the time at MS. What advice do you need? Any idea on when is this going to change? Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Can somebody from HR confirm this?If true then this post is quite untimely. I myself am a L62 on the cusp of a midyear promo after 18 months. Up to that point the "what" you accomplish can get you pretty far and you get some wiggly room on the how. What Is A Senior Director - Zippia